mag_pie | Because I feel it has to be said

Entry tags:

feminism,
glee

Because I feel it has to be said

I think the writers could do more to show why the "bitches" are the way that they are - I mean, I have no excuse for Terri and her sister, but I'm going to have faith in and show compassion for our high school ladies.

Bear with me while I delve a bit deeper into the real issues.

Rachel has never had friends, and she was hoping to have Glee help her out developmentally. She doesn't know how to deal with rejection in the one area she's always been encouraged in, and while everyone else is learning to be confident in performance, she isn't getting any benefit out of the club - people still throw drinks into her face, etc. If someone can take the time to get to know her and not, you know, kiss her and then the next day insult her, that might go a long way. Yes, she is flawed. Yes, she was acting like a diva. But someone needs to reach out to her and teach her how to both be herself and give her a chance to be liked and have friends. High school is really hard without that.

Quinn is a girl in high school who became pregnant because Puck got her drunk and had sex with her - he raped her (she was drunk = no consent, and she obviously didn't want it to happen in the first place), and she clearly hasn't had anyone to talk to about this since it happened. She likely feels violated, ashamed, and scared as hell, especially considering the moral values to which she ascribes. And she has to go to school and see the guy who did this to her every day. I don't blame her for not knowing how to talk to someone about this, and I don't blame her for not wanting Puck to be around. It sucks that she's pulling Finn into the mess, but she's a scared teenager who doesn't know what to do. Someone needs to really help her, and I'm kind of appalled that Will hasn't tried to go to at least Emma or SOMEONE who can give her the help and resources she needs.

So, honestly? Don't give up on these girls. It's easy to write them off as "bitches," but that's how problems don't get solved. Hopefully the writers realize that.

PS I really loved this episode, and Kurt and his dad made me so freaking happy. And Tina's singing was gorgeous :)

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Quinn didn't get raped, she did it because she was drunk and felt fat and needed validation. While she always planned on waiting til marriage, it was a spur of the moment bad decision.

I never got a ~rape vibe, and if anything I think the show is going the Gossip Girl route with this storyline. I would hope that if Quinn was raped, the show would show her a bit more damaged... Or mention it.

Hmmm... not sure I agree. While I don't think that drunk automatically = rape, I do think that it is very, VERY questionable, and a rape charge would probably be taken seriously. Yes, she did make a bad decision... but he aided that situation with the alcohol and took advantage of it.

Quinn was raped, the show would show her a bit more damaged... Or mention it.
But she's a teenage girl, panicking in her situation. I'm sure she thinks that she has no one but herself to blame... and we don't really know everything she's feeling.

I still don't think she got raped. I just don't believe they're going down that road, stylistically and from Puck/Quinn's convo I just didn't get that vibe.

Honestly, I think they're forming a love triangle/quadrangle here with Puck/Quinn being endgame. Making Puck a rapist would kill that plot idea.

I'm like 99% positive it was a drunken mistake.

And honestly, the she was drunk and he took advantage of it was used by many anti-BRotp supporters on IMDB, when they initially hooked up, and I wouldn't call THAT rape. Plus, I don't think Puck was shoving the alcohol down her throat. They never even claimed he provided it, IIRC.

Ooooohhhhh no, I DON'T think that they are exploring any kind of rape storyline with Quinn and Puck. I completely agree that they're going for the love triangle type storyline and there's nothing that malicious intended.

I'm just saying that when the situation involves an underaged girl, alcohol, and sex that she wasn't ready for, it's a situation that can be construed as rape.

And she did say "you got me drunk on wine coolers," if I recall correctly.

RE: HIMYM... Robin wasn't drunk, was she? Drinking, yes... but is there any proof she was drunk? I think that's a way different situation even if so. Robin's not a 16 or 17 year old girl, for one thing. And it's a comedy, not a dramedy like Glee, which I guess to me makes a big difference too.

Overall, yeah, I agree. I don't think that's the angle they're going for on Glee. But I do think that when alcohol's involved, the lines of consent are blurred.

P.S.

ONTD comment thread regarding the issue. It's pretty interesting... Arguments for both sides.

http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/39464455.html?thread=5934255623

If we were taking this to court, I'm sure there'd be a good argument to be had. But in this context, I don't think that's where it's going.

And Robin was vulnerable and definitely buzzed. I just remember a huge board war with people calling it rape. And age shouldn't be a factor with Puck/Quinn because they are both under the age of consent. (Law for Dummies FTW)

And age shouldn't be a factor with Puck/Quinn because they are both under the age of consent. (Law for Dummies FTW)
I didn't mean that legally, he shouldn't have sex with her because of her age-- I meant that she's young, not very mature, not ready for sex, and doesn't know how to deal with the consequences of her actions.

I agree that Robin was vulnerable and probably buzzed. That said... we don't know who instigated the kissing or the sex between her and Barney. And the same can be said for Quinn and Puck... so who knows!

You can't consent when you're drunk, and that's the bottom line when we deal with sexual assault survivors. Rape = no consent. The writers may gloss over it, because that's the way our society unfortunately sees situations like this, but she would never have done it if she had her mental faculties.

I'm going to give Puck some slack in the area of knowing whether Quinn was ready or not because he's like 17 and hormonal. I highly doubt half the guys I'd know would take that into consideration if given the opprotunity to have sex.

Sad and horrible, but true.

And I'd love Quinn/Puck recap to see exactly how it went down.

But if Puck was drunk too (which I'm guessing he was), there's a greater argument about whether it was rape or whose fault it was. Plus who said Puck initiated it? Quinn could've, the show only made it clear that Puck brought the alcohol, not that he suggested sex. I KNOW, I LEARNED THIS IN HEALTH CLASS.

We're not going to know what exactly happened because I know the show isn't going to go that route. What I saw was that she was sullen, she didn't want to be around the guy, and she clearly would never have done it without the alcohol. Beyond that, it's already known that there is serious lack of education about sex, and it is very likely these teenagers know nothing about date rape. Whether or not Quinn initiated it, this experience is clearly something that is causing her problems, and she needs a support system. But like I said, we're not going to see that, because this show is going to throw around drunken teenage hookups and pregnancies around willy nilly and not care about the rhyme or reason - it's not a drama, I don't expect them to deal with the consequences.

I agree with you completely about Rachel.

As for the Quinn part... Yes that is rape. I see that kind of situation as based on how the person who was legally raped sees it. I know people who've had almost the same exact experience (having sex with someone for the first time while drunk) and some of them don't feel like they were raped. Some do. So, I guess I just separate it like that. For me, it's more about feeling taken advantage of. Quinn seems to feel like she was taken advantage of. So, yes, I would say that she was raped.

I don't write off either of them as bitches. And I'm assuming we'll see them redeem themselves to some extent.

This post is awesome! I've seen way too many people calling both of them bitches. I hate that term in general.

Definitely a rough topic, especially when we'll never know what really happened. Thanks for sharing! &hearts

I haven't seen the episode so I can't really comment without the context regarding the rape but I just wanted to give you virtual hugs for this post as a whole.

&hearts&hearts&hearts

Thanks! I really appreciate it :) I think this is one of those low-recognition events that people don't realize is really harmful to our perception of women and what is socially acceptable to think of them, say to them, and do to them. I do not apologize to anyone for wanting to protect against a trivialization of violence against women (I know this topic well... I wrote a 30 page paper on the subject, phew), and I'm happy when others give recognition to it! Lots of virtual hugs back :DDDDDD

&hearts x a lot

Eh, Quinn was a bitch even before she got pregnant - any reason for that? ;)

And I adore your icon. I've had that song stuck in my head all day!

You're welcome! Violence against women and rape are my personal bezerk buttons (and not, as I was once condescendingly asked, because I have personally been a victim, thank goodness, but that's a rant for another time). I have been known to screech "It's not NO MEANS NO, it's YES MEANS YES and anything less does not qualify as consent!!!" so it makes me all warm and fuzzy when other people have reasoned, convincing arguments that say the same thing more eloquently than the "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?? RAAAAAHH" strategy I have implemented.

(sorry to jump in) I agree that I think it was mostly drunken pity-driven mistake. Though Puck def helped the situation progress.

hmmmm. Maybe we'll get more details?

Love your icon. Haha. T-dawg!

And I'm sure the before was that she's a Cheerio. Being in the alpha club can get to your head.

As far as bitches go, Terri and her sister are def not excusable. I'm sorry but THEY DRIVE ME CRAZY! Rachel and Quinn are more understandable at least.

I do not apologize to anyone for wanting to protect against a trivialization of violence against women.
Can I give you a hug too?
We can only hope that it won't be trivialized...

I do realize that I brought up a serious issue for a not-so-serious show. But the writers should realize they brought it first by citing a situation like that where we don't know the whole story and it just sounds like so many instances of date rape that young girls have gone through over and over again. I wish they had said that she did it in a moment of weakness, not that he had given her alcohol. But they had to bring it in. :/

Of course you can give me a hug! I give unlimited hugs to all who want them!

I don't contest the fact that she's flawed and mean - hello? She's in high school. I just hate it when people write women especially off as "bitches" without considering the whole picture. And there's a doozy of a picture that we'll likely never see, because "Glee" is not that kind of show. I just wish that they had explained her pregnancy in a way that still would have meant consent but she wasn't ready for it, and then we'd just have to deal with teen sexuality rather than have this discussion.

I love my icon too! And I need to make space to put in some of the icons you made, because I love them insane amounts :)

Yeah I'll admit that I was a little surprised at the super serious discussion of Quinn's rape/not-rape. But I think you're right to bring it up. I think we all should think and examine these issues more and seriously. Trivialization of these issues is not trivial.
Hugs!

Thanks! You can snag em at my journal if you like! Do NOT call him T-dawg, bro!!! ;)

And I am totally in love with YOUR icon!!! You won't believe how much my friend and I go around parroting that quote!

So I've gotta ask - what is up with the American cheerleader stereotype in film/TV? Is it really that way in most of the schools?

Dooon't stop! Be-lieeevin'!

I'm sure future episodes will elaborate on the Quinn/Puck hookup. At some point the secret will come out to everyone and we may get a better picture of how it went down.

I am also suspicious that Puck is in fact a little in love with Quinn. He gives her this long, lingering look as she stomps off that makes me think that he wants her to think better of him. We'll see!

Hahaha. <3 Ted and <3 Up!

You know, I have no idea. Both about why that stereotype and what they're like in most schools. I've never really had serious cheerleaders at any of my schools. But I'm guessing it has some basis in facts cause I've heard people talk about how horrible cheerleaders are. And then there's the whole thing with head cheerleaders and qb's. Don't really know what's up with that either; though I feel that that's more likely to have just been established/popularized by someone and has just been continued. I think there is actually some credence to the snooty cheerleader idea though.

It's a total stereotype, and I don't understand how they get away with it except for the fact that apparently SOME, not all, high schools do experience this.

First of all - NO WAY do cheerleaders wear their uniforms every day. They only ever did it on game day, and that was the same for other high schools that I knew of. And the football players don't wear their pads during school either - on game days they'll either wear their jerseys or dress up, depending on whether the game is home or away.

Second - the meanness has to depend on the clique-iness of the school. My high school had a lot of overlap between all the clubs, despite being a large, public school. So there wasn't this disconnect or hierarchy that we see in the films and TV - our star football player played the tenor sax in our wind ensemble; we had field hockey players who were in the musical in the spring; etc. But I do hear from other people, who, like Rachel, hated high school, that they did have to deal with the hierarchy and the cliques. But not necessarily the cheerleaders.

I'm not saying that the sex wasn't a damaging experience for Quinn, it definitely was, especially now that she has to live with a reminder of it (her pregancy). But at the same time, I'm unwilling to classify it as rape until I get more details of what happened. There's a lot of blanks to be filled in with this story...

I hope we do get more details! And thanks for jumping in... I felt kind of like a monster for thinking it wasn't rape. (Good to see I'm not alone!)

No problem. I do hope we learn what happened, because otherwise a whole lot of character damage could go down. For both Quinn and Puck (and maybe even Finn).

hahaha. No prob. You're not a monster.
I agree with the post in the sense that it's an issue to which we should be attentive. Rape is serious business.
However, with the information that we've been given, I don't think we can really definitively say that it was rape. And I'm not sure that the show will really delve into the topic. We can only wait and see.
:/

Wow, I completely forgot the rape/bitches discussions that were going on earlier in the series. I understand why they dropped the date rape issue that could have come up in the Puck/Quinn situation, but I hate that they made Puck look like the victim in that storyline, that he was the one who got all the sympathy from fans and Quinn was made out to be the coldhearted bitch for going to Finn, her boyfriend, and making him work to get her money and pretending he was the father and all that. They didn't treat her like that for the ENTIRE storyline, thank god, but I wish they had made her seem a little more conflicted about all the deception. Terri at least showed remorse a few times about jerking Will around while it was going on, and not just after she was found out. Maybe some of it can be chalked up to Quinn's immaturity, but... I don't know.

Oh, nor has there been much development with Rachel's divaness/respect from her fellow Glee members. She at least seems to be hanging out with them more, but they all turned on her fairly quickly when she showed interest in Jesse.

Oh, Glee. Gender!fail. *sigh*

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Because I feel it has to be said

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